98Feb03 01:09AM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Well, this is new and sure to need features. I'm ready to add them.
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PerlCit: Next-generation lava lamp for short attention spans.
Perhaps if I used an auto-next-hall feature... 98Feb04 04:15PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
I think the first feature I need is a way to change hallways effectively. Perhaps a link on the room prompt would be effective. Feedback? (provided you can find this hall)
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb04 06:20PM (PST) From [The somewhat questionable] IGnatius T Foobar [Pd.Q.]
How many different webcit implementations are there, anyway? Yours, mine, at least one or two others...
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Check out UNCENSORED! BBS at uncnsrd.mt-kisco.ny.us
98Feb04 06:24PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Well, there's one at rdwarf.com that is sort of an in-house effort from some folks from the old Seattle Cit scene. I did an altavista search for webcit and came up with quite a few entries.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb08 02:50PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
I'm still a fight-to-the-death advocate of traditional dial-up methods.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
That said, I think that this is far, far better than rdwarf.com. I haven't tried the other citadel board yet. 98Feb08 07:16PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I'm with you there, Zen. Something is definitely lost with web-based interfaces. The flow of the messages is gone... I'm just not as fond of it. At all.
98Feb08 07:25PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Personally, I think the flow of messages is still here. they read just the same. You're just using the page-down key instead of the spacebar is all.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb08 08:23PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
If you use Lynx, it's still spacebar.
I had a different routine, however. G and N were the keys I used most (and E, of course, but that was just a part of the pattern break for message entry). I used G to unpause.
As for message entry, it's completely different here. Not in a good way, either. HTML reduces my beautiful formatting to nothing. I had a pattern in each message, and I liked it that way. Now, I'm just another slave to the motherland.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb08 08:26PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Yeah yeah yeah.
Look, I've been thinking of putting in the original cit-style filters so that your messages can look
like this.
I may make it an option that you can turn off.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb08 08:32PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Good for you. I miss my 8-2-5 tabbing already.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
Oh, and tabs won't work no matter what you do. Besides, you can enter a blank slug by typing the way I did (look at the document source for a clue) 98Feb08 08:38PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Good. You folks all realize that this was written in an afternoon, don't you? Instead of saying "I am not fond of this at all" or "i am a slave to your features" you can just ask me to change something.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb08 10:58PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Like this?
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb08 10:59PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
This is a waste of my valuable time and effort. Time to set up some new macros.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb08 11:02PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Ahh...
Much better, thank you.
It's kind of an eyesore to type with, but it will suffice for the moment.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb08 11:04PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
As for suggestions, I don't want to have to put a BR at the end of each line.
Maybe if you changed it to the standard cit "begin each line with a space" schpiel...
This is getting kind've fun, actually.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
I just don't like web-based citadel. I don't like the message entering interface. I don't like the feel, the interaction.
No amount of entering features will change the sterile feel that web interfaces have in comparison with the old interfaces.
Maybe I'll get used to it eventually, even learn to like it. Just not any time soon. 98Feb09 10:09AM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
This is good, Nick. I mean, for a web-based effort, it's good. And I think it is exceptional for an afternoon's work.
98Feb09 03:11PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Personally, I want to stay a stubborn bastard until I'm old and gray.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb09 06:41PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Here you go, George
I've added the space-thingummy.
Happy?
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb09 06:48PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Of course, for some reason or another I still need to put in <BR> tags to get it to scroll down.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb09 07:34PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
OK. I suppose I should probably mention why I even wrote this thing in the first place.
The big reason was that I had the idea for the interface all mapped out. Cynbe Ru Taren said that the best example of engineering was something that got the job done without calling attention to itself. He also said that his first task was to streamline the basic three operations (Goto, New, and Enter) as much as possible.
Well, I saw a way to make the three basic operations work, and I went for it. I figured that the whole process of reading messages was based on three pointers: first, last read, and last. (Reading new goes from last read to last, reading reverse goes from last to first, etc...) I saw first and last as being implicit through the use of the scrollbar, and last read was easily implemented through anchors.
I felt I should put the message entry at the bottom of every message-reading, since often when I enter a message my eyes go back up the list to see what someone else has said. This is where the "flow" truly comes from. Your message is always a part of the stream, to some degree.
Goto may be a bit clumsy, but it is achieved with a single mouse-click for most, and serves its purpose. Those who are intrepid enough will play with the drop-down list and find the other features, but the basic operations are shown to the user right off the bat.
Perhaps the biggest flaw from a design perspective is that I tried to mimic cit+ in its appearance. Undoubtedly this is what's causing the major reaction. No, I do not think that this is going to be exactly the same as Cit+ nor do I think it will ever be. it is a forms-based BBS that is based on some of the principles.
Oh, and I would not describe this as 'sterile' in the least. I'd like to know exactly what you mean by that.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb09 07:38PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
I would also like to point out that using the G or N key rather than some other method is no substitute for good conversation.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb09 07:41PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
test
Ack. This is just testing physical wordwrap versus "virtual" word-wrap. (As prof. Galles is fond of saying, "virtual is a handy Computer Science word meaning 'not'.")
bleh/.
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Clicky-clicky click click
98Feb09 08:12PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Auto next-hall is now working. No more going through that silly map to get to another hallway.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:23PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
On the contrary, I think that the mimicry of Cit+ is one of this interfaces charms.
I feel it's sterile because I'm entering text in a little box on the screen. I feel like I'm interacting with the browser, *not* an actual BBS. I'm not actually "on" a board; I'm accessing a page on the Web.
On the plus side, HTML is better than the formatting scheme GremCit used. Like I've said before, I may learn to like it...
It just seems so... well. Mainstream.
98Feb09 08:25PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
OK. I have GOT to figure out why messages appear in the lobby as well...
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:26PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
Ack! Dammit, I meant to post that in that other room. >grumble< And, I suppose, there's no easy way to move it. How did it end up here? What button did I press accidently? FAWK!
98Feb09 08:27PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Yeah, I know. It's pretty hyperiffic if you think about it. That's why it took me easily a year to stop trying to learn network programming and just take the path of least resistance and do this.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:27PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
Okay, I'm thoroughly confused, but that's okay. And a stupid SKUNK just decided to spray outside of the dorm, so my room now smells unpleasant. Whadda night.
98Feb09 08:30PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
"Hyperiffic." I like that. Well, as long as you acknowledge that the whole web-BBS idea is kinda' cheesy, I'll acknowledge that this is undoubtedly the best damn Web BBS out there. (From my perspective, at any rate!)
98Feb09 08:31PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Hmm.. I think this happens when you press the save message button twice (ironically, the save-message button is exactly the same as the go to button, so if you save and press go to, that may do the trick). I'll try it with this message.
the problem also happened when George and I tried posting in the same room at the same time.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:31PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Hmm.. I think this happens when you press the save message button twice (ironically, the save-message button is exactly the same as the go to button, so if you save and press go to, that may do the trick). I'll try it with this message.
the problem also happened when George and I tried posting in the same room at the same time.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:31PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Oh, I fully admit that the concept is cheesy. I think the actual implementation may just work.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:32PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I didn't *think* that I pressed the button twice.
98Feb09 08:32PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Hmm... Well, at least the Lobby is the room of choice for stray copies of messages. That shows some sort of standard of citiness.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:33PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I think that any implementation necessarily contains a strong element of cheese. I think that this implementation minimizes the cheese.
98Feb09 08:34PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Yeah, like I'm supposed to take user-interface criticism from someone who uses EMACS. >ducking<
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:41PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I'm not a die-hard EMACS fanatic. Don't worry. It's not the interface per se; my main gripe is with the whole concept of the web BBS. It's a contradiction, really.
98Feb09 08:42PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
It's interesting to note that your message in the Lobby (the ghost) doesn't have a t/s or email address. This could be a key.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:44PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Could you possibly have double-clicked on that button? It's like the BBS was already accessing your user state and the room state and decided to work with defaults...
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:45PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
It's strange to note how this interface changes the quality and quantity of messages. I've entered far more tonight that I would have on the old board, and spent a lot more time doing it.
They've been longer, too--this new interface may detract a bit from the one-liner twittiness inherent on most citadels.
Then again, looking at rdwarf.com, I begin to doubt that...
98Feb09 08:46PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I *might* have. The touchpad sometimes registers a click when you accidently tap it.
My biggest gripe with rdwarf.com is that the software makes no distinction between read and unread messages when it displays them to you. 98Feb09 08:48PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Haha! Part of the issue is that we're having a heated discussion to some degree. We happen to have a lot to say tonight.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:49PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
...mmm, yes. I'm using a touchpad as well... here goes a test.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:50PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
AHA! It even does the GECOS name-guessing on my post! OK. I think I know how to fix THAT one! I just need to put in error handling code (probably won't get to it until tomorrow or so.)
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb09 08:52PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
I will also need to put in some management features (such as verbose mode to show you message numbers, and aide functions to kill messages). That will take some time. I need to clean up the code what's already there. Still, it's far from impossible to implement a move feature, say.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 08:35AM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
That would be good. Move features would really improve this.
98Feb10 11:15AM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
I think kill will happen before move, since move involves moving between database files.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 12:44PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Here goes a test.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 12:48PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Another test.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 12:53PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
OK, so far so good... Here's the last test (I hope)
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 12:54PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
I think it's fixed.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 12:54PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
I think it's fixed.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 12:54PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
(I meant to do that)
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 01:30PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
What was wrong with it, anyway?
Is there any way to show the users currently connected? That would be a good feature.
98Feb10 02:13PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
All users are always connected. Your user state is saved on disk, not in memory.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 02:16PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
The problem was as I said: it tried to do two messages, one while the other was being written. I have no way of stopping duplicates, but at least now they'll have full information.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 03:44PM (PST) From [insomnia] eve batey [rules me]
I'd suggest that the complaints, vague and tehnically invalid as they might be, all stem from our inherent fear of change. I mean, it's truly lovely work, Nick, and I cannot tell you how impressed I am with it all. However, I'm nostalgic for conversations I had yesterday, you know? So, it's tough to change one of the only fun parts of my life (stifled sob). But it's pretty sexy that I can just scoot my mouse around and correct...see - I'm being won over!
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eve@zork.net
98Feb10 03:51PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
Nick, could you rephrase that explanation?
Isn't there a way to show which people have accessed which parts of the BBS, and how long ago?
98Feb10 04:16PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
No one is really logged in. Every time you press the Go to or Save Message button, your browser sends your username and password. Information like what room you're in and what messages you've read is saved in a database file that has your username (not the same as the printed name) for the filename.
Now, this means that I am ONLY logged in while a command is being processed. When I'm typing in a message, looking at my options, or reading messages I am effectively dealing with a local document, and am not actually logged in. This is why you always come back to the same room you were last in.
To answer Eve's question from her email, you can just leave the page (hit the home button or whatever) and you will be fine.
To answer Emily's Question, you can already see how long ago a user entered a command from the List of Users. I'll add which room they last accessed if you like.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 05:09PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
Okay, that makes sense. And the last room accessed would be nice.
98Feb10 05:14PM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
If you'll look, it's already been done.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb10 09:25PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
how about an "ungoto" command? It could be added to the drop down menu. Last room visited, or something.
98Feb10 11:58PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Okay, I think I've figured it out.
This is the WRITE of BBS'ing. While Cit+ was TALK, with its quick interface and constant flow of information, this BBS sends big chunks at a time instead.
I just thought of something! Would it be possible to have it auto-refresh for anyone in a room that has just had a message added? That would be exceedingly annoying, but...
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
On a technical level, however, this system is client-pull rather than server-push. Your browser has to ask for something in order for anything to happen (as I said, the system doesn't even know you're there until you do something). 98Feb11 11:23AM (PST) From [Are they replacing killers,] Nick [or killing replacements?]
Yeah, I've been thinking about Jumpback. I'd have to add a whole new function for it, but it shouldn't be too hard.
Well, hmmm... auto-refresh would interfere with anyone reading messages. Imagine the new user suddenly having his or her screen refresh right in the middle of a really good paragraph.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 05:07PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Hmm, just on an interface level, Emily, how would you implement an Ungoto command? It's a tough one, since I'm trying to keep the number of commands in the dropdown list to a minimum (so that the current roomlist can be displayed).
On a lighter note, I think I got cit-style message formatting to work properly (this is a test of it).
meow?
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 05:12PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
more tests
to see if
this is cool.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 05:17PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Well, anyway. I'm thinking of putting the current hall in the room prompt somewhere, since I'm too lazy to use the title tag for it.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 06:35PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
This is a test to see if I can suppress duplicate messages.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 06:36PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
This is a test to see if I can suppress duplicate messages.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 06:37PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Groove. It works. the only reason I have a duplicate up there is because I entered them a minute off. OK. I'm glad I got THAT fixed.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 08:45PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
Personally, I'd add it to the drop-down box. If you need more room in the drop-down box, make separate buttons for preferences and user list (or have a special "room" which allows you to see and edit these things.)
That's just my suggestion.
98Feb11 09:26PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
I'll take it into advisement, but right now I think there are more pressing features. (after all, if you want to reread a message there's always the BACK button)
As for the title field: that's done when the program initially runs. When you Goto, it does things in the following order:
Now, what I need to do is decentralize the display of header info so that text is displayed only after the commands are processed. This just involves rooting through code and changing shit--something I should probably have done before I put this up, but hey.
The program, as it stands now, is 400 lines of uncommented perl. I'll probably fix the print order stuff this weekend and start putting in comments as well. I'd say that 400 lines is about the point where I can't keep the whole thing in my head anymore.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb11 11:55PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
I have a suggestion which, if nothing else, would make it more Lynx-friendly.
Say I'm in a room 32 pages long, where 20 of those pages are new messages. After I enter my message, it takes me back to the first new message. This means that I have to scroll down 19 pages just to get to the room prompt.
Silly.
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If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb12 10:53AM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Well, I suppose that is true. I may make a lynx options thing. Expect to see room pointers updated on an Enter sometime soon.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb12 07:32PM (PST) From [Cyber] FR�G [of the Forest]
Here's some more suggestions:
- Seperate drop down menu into two menus:
[Room Commands] [User commands]
- Add some more user preferences
- Messages or lines to display (ie. screen size 24?)
(With the ability to jump back/forward # of messages
in the room. i.e. go back 100 old messages in
current room.)
- Clicking on username either goes directly to person
or ends up as 'exclusive message' to the user, saved
on the WebCit.
- Auto Word wrapping?
- The line "You are in the Hall:" should be a drop-down
box with the complete list of halls.
- Repeat the Room prompt/drop down list at the top
of the page.
- Have a button jump to the 'Enter new Message' area from
the top.
Enough for now.... :-)
Great job!
-FRuG
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URL:http://ww.dystopia.org/frug
98Feb12 10:02PM (PST) From [Full Metal Jacket] Narcoleptic Dog [Key Grip: Mark Ellis]
I dig the new board.
98Feb12 10:13PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
OK, just to address FRüG's concerns (though he probably should have used the <UL> tags to structure that message hehe)
- Seperate drop down menu into two menus:
[Room Commands] [User commands]
This is a possibility, though I'd much rather keep things as uncluttered as possible. Perhaps I'll move user commands down to the very bottom, or put a more advanced toolbar somwhere. Right now I want to even remove things from the existing list (basically anything that doesn't make sense in a sentence that begins "Go to...")
- Add some more user preferences
This is definitely on its way.
- Messages or lines to display (ie. screen size 24?)
(With the ability to jump back/forward # of messages
in the room. i.e. go back 100 old messages in
current room.)
See my explanation of the way the #NEW anchor works.
- Clicking on username either goes directly to person
or ends up as 'exclusive message' to the user, saved
on the WebCit.
Why bother, when there's actual email? I realize that exclusive messages are often part of the flow of conversation, but I really feel it's unnecessary until this software reaches a certain sophistication.
- Auto Word wrapping?
Good heavens, man! What browser are you using? I get auto word-wrap under Netscape 4.04 for Linux and Solaris.
- The line "You are in the Hall:" should be a drop-down
box with the complete list of halls.
This is a good one. I may think about it.
- Repeat the Room prompt/drop down list at the top
of the page.
I've been thinking of doing this anyway. Realize that you won't always be sent to the top of the page. Once you have your message pointers set, you get sent to the middle of the page.
- Have a button jump to the 'Enter new Message' area from
the top.
See previous response.
I've been keeping all of these comments in my little RedHat logbook (a cool little blank book that fits in my pocket which I have decorated with a single RedHat-logo sticker.) I'll have a little time over the weekend to comment my code and develop a little. I may even have a developer's release out in a week or so for folks like FRüG can have a go. Also, it'll be GPL.
This all seems so silly for a program that's only 400 lines, but what the hell.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb12 10:21PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
It may be possible, what with the NET:: modules, to make a client that hides the HTTP/CGIness of this thing with a classic cit interface.
I'll give anyone who does it a dollar.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb13 08:48AM (PST) From [Barton] Eve [Fink]
I just like the redhat notebook. No other comments.
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time is on my side
98Feb13 04:52PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Speaking of legacy features, I realized what a horrible piece of Cit my room-pointer management is. I did the normal Cit thing and updated them on a Goto. This is silly, since it's supposed to be a measure of read messages. I'll update them upon display now, which will also help the fact that people can enter messages between the time you go to the room and the time you leave it.
It's amazing I didn't see this sooner.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb13 04:53PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Of course, I won't get to half of what I promised for a day or so now.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb14 02:55PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Room and hall are now displayed in the title bar. If anyone has a berry way to format them, I'd love to hear it. I used hall : room> just for now, but I'd like to make things clearer if at all possible.
Also, how are response times for everybody? I normally use this thing from the USF campus, but I've heard complaints about lag times of up to a minute and a half.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb14 03:12PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Zen-O-phobia
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb14 03:13PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Much better. I was doing too many \n replacements.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb14 05:02PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
OK, I've made the source code available at http://www.zork.net/cit/ZorkCitDR0.01.tar.gz". I have called it a Developer's Release, which again feels silly to me since it's only 500 lines of code. if you download it, it's up to you to figure out how to make it work. I'll help out via email if necessary
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb14 07:25PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
I'm not so sure I like this hallway dropdown. I'll need to fine-tune it some.
You may notice that I've updated the Map output. It now shows you the difference between rooms with unread messages in them and rooms that have no unread messages. I have a feeling I will need to lay that out a bit better.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb14 08:40PM (PST) From Bob Perigo
Nick, This is great. I'm amazed at how you built it in an afternoon but even more impressed by the constant stream of enhancements. It's likely my LouCit WebCit that's the cause of all the Portuguese responces for "webcit" searches because my name's a common word in that language. I grabbed your source and hope to find a sysop.doc and hack.doc in it.
Thanks for posting your url on Lou's Red Dwarf.
------
Have you Babbled on Babel?
98Feb15 01:35PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Well, thanks. I figured that it was a Portuguese word for "website" that was doing it.
I didn't make the files you mention, since it's not a proper release. Basically it has licensing info and some of the support scripts I used. The code itself says that doing user authentication is up to you, but I included all of the scripts written by Ben Turner that I used. Essentially everything but the cit.pl itself should be considered an example
------
Blue stuff is cool
98Feb15 01:48PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Well, I keep fixing features that should have gone into the first release. I suggest you get the new one at http://www.zork.net/cit/ZorkCitDR0.02.tar.gz. It has the hallway and YouAreHere stuff fixed.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb15 03:06PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
OK. I've decided to make a directory at http://www.zork.net/cit/download/. There's practically no difference between DR0.01 and DR0.02, but trust me when I say that 0.02 is better.
Included in that directory is a copy of the license and a copy of the cit.pl source that you can read in your browser.
------
Blue stuff is cool
98Feb15 07:30PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
When it gets big enough you can name it McCit and sell it to McDonald's for $30,000.
------
If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb16 12:34PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
This is message #92. When message #101 is posted, older messages will be shoved into the archives. I should probably make some sort of link to the archive somewhere.
------
Blue stuff is cool
98Feb16 01:06PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
I could get used to this, I suppose.
------
Blue stuff is cool
98Feb16 04:37PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
Something that just occurred to me: It might be a bit better if the "auto-next-hall" feature *didn't* take you to lobby by default... rather, the first room with new messages. Going to lobby made sense under the old interface, when the only overhead was the room prompt, but loading an entire screenful of old stuff is a bit tedious when you have a not-so-swift network connection. (As I often do at this time in the evening, coming from the East Coast.)
Just something to think about...
I like the new font. In this browser, it's much more legible.
98Feb16 10:17PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Whine, whine, whine...
------
If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb16 11:09PM (PST) From Scorp
hmmmm, if it's possible to assign hotkeys to the buttons, you could get some level of Goto/Enter/New type behavior...
98Feb17 06:33AM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I'm not whining, but I can if you prefer.
98Feb17 12:03PM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Yeah. That would effectively be the concept of "floors" rather than halls. I suppose that makes sense, though.
------
Blue stuff is cool
98Feb18 12:57AM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
The good ol' AmigaCit way.
------
If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb18 10:42AM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Actually, Cit+ supports floor mode, as do a number of cits.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb18 06:29PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
Yeah, well, bite me.
------
If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb18 07:42PM (PST) From [push] Masquerade [technology]
I think it would be good. I've never actually used a "floor mode" cit, but it'd be worth trying. (if it annoys you, you can always get rid of it)
98Feb19 11:37AM (PST) From [mindblowing] Nick [lawnjob]
Miranda was floor mode.
Development on this thing will come to a standstill for a while until I have some free time.
------
Blue stuff is cool
98Feb19 11:20PM (PST) From [The Monarch Formerly Known As] Shazdeh [Isn't that just HILARIOUS?!]
You need a cherry flavor.
------
If horses were wishes, I'd own a hopeless carriage.
98Feb20 03:10PM (PST) From [Barton] Eve [Fink]
Also, deodorant, for those "not so freah days".
------
time is on my side
98Feb20 03:10PM (PST) From [Barton] Eve [Fink]
whoops. Fresh, not freah.
------
time is on my side
98Feb27 01:24AM (PST) From Scorp
not that it's a big deal, but fyi, the hall dropdown list renders as a different style than the other buttons and dropdowns in netscape 4.03 for linux.
98Feb27 11:07AM (PST) From [Would you like to play a game?] Nick [COBOL THERMONUCLEAR WAR]
I know. It's because of the way that I formatted them. I'm running 4.03 for solaris, and I get the same thing. Silly bit is, Win95 and McComputer users see the same kind no matter what.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb27 11:38AM (PST) From [Queen] Masquerade [for today]
Question: is 4.03 a lot less stable?
Using Netscape 3 under LINUX, I see the same kind, too.
------
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~escrooks
98Feb27 02:03PM (PST) From [Would you like to play a game?] Nick [COBOL THERMONUCLEAR WAR]
I would say yes, as long as you run it native.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Feb28 07:05AM (PST) From [Queen] Masquerade [for today]
I can't wait until the source is released. How long do you suppose it will take before someone puts together a decent version after that?
------
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~escrooks
98Mar01 02:06PM (PST) From [Would you like to play a game?] Nick [COBOL THERMONUCLEAR WAR]
I'd give it three months before the canonical FSF version is out.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Mar01 02:39PM (PST) From Scorp
I've had pretty good luck with the linux 4.03 version. Only problem I ever had with it was it would crash the beta version of the TGA X-server. With the new TGA server, local or remote it's fine.
98Mar01 02:48PM (PST) From [Would you like to play a game?] Nick [COBOL THERMONUCLEAR WAR]
Yeah. It's fine for me.
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Blue stuff is cool
98Mar06 09:14PM (PST) From sansan
FWIW, I'm impressed.
Probably doesn't mean much though. . .
I really do like the Citadel resurection here.
It definitely has it's place.
On the tree even.
98Mar08 03:01PM (PST) From Nick
OK, big problem. apostrophes in user parameters aren't being sent properly. Grrr...
98Apr06 08:16PM (PDT) From [Tetsuo!!!] Nick [Kaneda!!!] Well, anyone is welcome to help out.
Well, if life provides, I may work a little on this next weekend.
98Apr06 08:54PM (PDT) From [asynchronous] Masquerade [synchronicity]
Soon as my life calms down sufficiently to allow me to learn Perl, I'd love to.
------
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~escrooks
98Apr07 03:38PM (PDT) From [Barton] Eve [Fink]
Speaking of your life, how goes the job search? I know this is innappropriate for this room, but it seems like a good time to ask.
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time is on my side
98Apr07 08:07PM (PDT) From [asynchronous] Masquerade [synchronicity]
What this really means--for those of you keeping score at home--is that my brief sojourn on the East Coast is going to
Which ain't my first choice, but there it is. *sigh*
Well, I have some job offers, so the fundamental purpose has been fulfilled. I'm not thrilled about the options I have, but I'm going to take one of them anyway, since I'm damn sick of the entire process. (My ego can't take any more rejections just now.)
become a more permanent stay. Indefinite, in fact. I'm camping out here (somewhere between Worcester, MA and Boston) until further notice.
------
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~escrooks
98Apr11 08:42AM (PDT) From [Sysop of gwnorth.citadelia.org] Campagnolo
Greetings fellow Citadelians! I like the interface here. It's close to the web-cit associated with Citadel/UX.
How would somone like to do a write up on the delveopment here for the May Issue of the CitaNews (URL: http://www.citadelia.org click on the CitaNews link). I'm hoping to have write ups on several differnt Citadels that are still in development.
And as a side note, this BBS will be listed within the next week on the Citadel BBS list also found off of www.citadelia.org.
I look forward to stoping by in the future!
------
Visit http://www.citadelia.org
98Apr11 09:08AM (PDT) From [I've never been so happy] Eve [to get a D+ in my life.]
Was that Guffman?
------
I want candy.
98Apr11 12:50PM (PDT) From [Dominate] Nick [the subversive paradigm]
Is there a development cycle here? I hadn't noticed.
98Apr12 07:25PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism]
Well, it is under development. The wash cycle's just finished, and we're waiting for the spin cycle to begin...
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You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr13 09:01PM (PDT) From [I've never been so happy] Eve [to get a D+ in my life.]
But the water's been running for hours, and I'm sick of running up and down the stairs. That's it: from now on, it's all going to the wash and fold.
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I want candy.
98Apr13 10:05PM (PDT) From [I hate toe rings.] Narcoleptic Dog [Toe rings are disgusting.]
Guh?
------
Dammit Zen! Send me my Game Boy games.
98Apr13 10:09PM (PDT) From [Beware of falling objects] Eve [like your grades]
I think they call it a metaphor, Narco.
------
I'm on the other line. I'll talk to you later. Click.
98Apr13 10:16PM (PDT) From [I hate toe rings.] Narcoleptic Dog [Toe rings are disgusting.]
I know, it's just fun to react to randomness with randomness.
------
Dammit Zen! Send me my Game Boy games.
98Apr14 05:20PM (PDT) From [Beware of falling objects] Eve [like your grades]
I know what you mean, but my iron-clad inhibitions prevent me from such displays of hubris.
------
I'm on the other line. I'll talk to you later. Click.
98Apr14 05:25PM (PDT) From [We dress like schoolkids] Nick [we dress like housewives]
But hubris is a virtue!
------
or in a suit and a tie.
98Apr14 05:37PM (PDT) From [Beware of falling objects] Eve [like your grades]
I agree. But I'm almost completely without virtue.
------
I'm on the other line. I'll talk to you later. Click.
98Apr14 05:43PM (PDT) From [We dress like schoolkids] Nick [we dress like housewives]
According to Larry Wall, there are three important virtues:
------
or in a suit and a tie.
98Apr14 06:07PM (PDT) From [Beware of falling objects] Eve [like your grades]
Well, I guess two out of three ain't bad.
------
I'm on the other line. I'll talk to you later. Click.
98Apr21 06:10PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
OK, I've been making some minor cosmetic changes 'round here. i'm trying one last experiment with the siglines (it'll probably urn out hideous, but what the hell?)
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:12PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Hmmm. How does it look?
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EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:13PM (PDT) From [The wash and fold] Eve [has changed my life.]
No, no I like it. I was just admiring how it looked in Emily's room.
------
PBS can suck Nick's dick.
98Apr21 06:20PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Hmmm.. Well, what if I made it yellow as well...
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:22PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Well, i can't do that... How about noshade?
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:23PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Well that wasn't very good... maybe if I halved it....
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:23PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
That looks silly... how about align=left....
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:24PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
comments?
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:34PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism]
Earlier today I was admiring them, thinking how neat and retro they looked.
I like the new sans serif, though.
I prefer the old yellow dashes. They seem less harsh, somehow.
You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr21 06:36PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Eve digs the horizontal rule.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 06:37PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism]
Is it the horizontal rule, or the new font that she likes? Or does she like both?
You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr21 06:41PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Both. we were just on the phone.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 07:58PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Part of the reason I want to move to the horizontal rule as a form of separating message from signature is that I want to move away from the ASCII-art as much as possible.
As much as we deny its web roots, I really think it would be best to do it all with HTML.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 10:58PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Oh yeah, and it's still dashes in lynx, Emily. If you really don't like the Netscape Interface, Lynx2.8 is the latest release.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr21 11:27PM (PDT) From [Mystic] Shazdeh [Fibrosis]
Yeah, but there are way too many of 'em.
WAIT BEFORE KILLING
98Apr22 09:33AM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
OK. The HR is set to <HR WIDTH="25%">
it used to be 6 dashes divided by 80 possible dashes, which is less than 10%.
Suffer, pope.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr22 12:39PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism]
(I'm not going to kid myself that this is really feedback-driven development)
But the dashes were hardly "ascii art." They were yellow punctuation. I thought the combination of yellow t/s and date + the yellow dashes framed the messages much better than the horizontal bars. As George has pointed out, when people post short messages (as they are prone to on any cit-like forum) the bars are too numerous. Make them smaller, if you can.
In general, I'm not a fan of the horizontal rule.
Admittedly, I like Cit the real way: command-line interactivity. I find it better than always pressing buttons with a mouse. Perhaps I should switch to Lynx for this reason and because using this board through Netscape from 3k miles away is almost unbearably slow most times of the day.
(Yes, I am irritable. Yes, I am having a terrible day.)
I know how useless it is to disagree with a change which Nick has already made.
You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr22 01:12PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
You're more than welcome to help code the thing, Emily, if you feel that your opinions aren't being listened to. Then you can add whatever you want.
Yes, command-line cit is grand.
Yes, this is slower'n hell.
But the conversation since the BBS moved to this has been much better, in my opinion. That, and it's been easier to get to from web-puppy library terminals and the like. I'm trying to make this thing work as well as is possible, but it's tough when I'm the only one working on it.
As for the horizontal rule, I'm just giving it a try. I'll try 10% now, and see about making the damn thing yellow. To tell you the truth, I prefer the yellow line anyway.
As for color, you should talk to the Cit86 folks. They still fear color in a way I've never seen on any other platform.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr22 01:13PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Now it's at 10%...
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr22 01:14PM (PDT) From [Internet] Nick [telepathy]
Join the ZorkCit cabal, kids, and have yourself a power-hungry day.
EMACS Makes A Computer Slow
98Apr22 03:47PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism]
So, do whatever the fuck you feel like. The days of the true BBSs are dead; I should simply resign myself to a world of slow-loading web pages and point-and-drool interfaces. This is certainly a hell of a lot better than any other web based forums, and for that I commend you.
The horizontal rule looks better at 10%.
And I'm still having a bad day.
Well, I'd code, except I have a thesis to finish, tons of other work to do, and (frankly) having it exactly my way isn't important enough for me to bother. And if I worked on it, it would probably legally belong to Digital Equipment Corporation in a couple of months, anyway.
You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr22 03:48PM (PDT) From Nick
To quote Emily:
I know how useless it is to disagree with a change which Nick has already made.
(I'm not going to kid myself that this is really feedback-driven development)
Please explain to me which changes you were disappointed with, and where I failed to give your feedback adequate concern. To tell you the truth, I made these changes while I was on the phone with Eve, as a sort of experiment. I kept them because she was pleased with the results, and I wanted to see what everyone else thought. Your inital response just put me into a defensive mode.
I am experimenting, nothing more.
98Apr22 03:49PM (PDT) From Nick
This program is under the GNU General Public License. It cannot be owned by anyone.
98Apr22 04:14PM (PDT) From [Mystic] Shazdeh [Fibrosis]
Let's put it this way:
Regular Cit: G for goto, N for new, E for enter, CTRL-Z for save.
This Shit: Space, Space, Space, Down, Right for goto, Simply scroll through for new, TAB, TAB, TAB, Right for save.
Which is easier?
Regular Cit: Finish your message and move on.
This Shit: Finish your message, reload the page, load the next page, and move on.
WAIT BEFORE KILLING
98Apr22 04:17PM (PDT) From Nick
OK. I only need to hit tab like once with lynx 2.8
yes, it is quicker to use ordinary cits, but I can't help that. It would take me years before I got all the networking shit working in a daemon-based cit.
98Apr22 04:21PM (PDT) From [Mystic] Shazdeh [Fibrosis]
The number of tabs necessary depens on the positioning of the page breaks.
And why don't you just forget about the Web and set up the old board again? You have no idea how great my loathing is of web-based anything.
WAIT BEFORE KILLING
98Apr22 04:24PM (PDT) From Nick
I can't set it up. I don't have the time to keep rebooting that damn thing. It was amusing when it was in my dorm room, but now it'd be down half the time.
This has its problems, but neither Perl nor Apache have hideous memory leaks or kernel panic-causing code.
98Apr22 04:26PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism] ...and also...
Oh yeah, and it's still dashes in lynx, Emily. If you really don't like the Netscape Interface, Lynx2.8 is the latest
release.
I wish you hadn't become so immediately defensive. I really do think this is a nice piece of work. I wish that you asked before making changes, however. I don't like being taken by surprise by major interface changes. This not a big issue--if this were my word processing program, I'd be ticked, but as it is, I can deal.
I don't believe that I can legally contribute to the development of something that's GPL'd once I've started working for a private company. I'll find out for sure in a couple of weeks, when I sign all of the papers.
I was disappointed with the horizontal rule. Now, to quote you:
it used to be 6 dashes divided by 80 possible dashes, which is less than 10%.
Suffer, pope.
I hardly call this giving feedback adequate concern. It appears that you're merely making flip responses to reasonable criticism, and it annoys me.
However, I have neither time nor energy to devote to development. If I did, I'd have more say; your point is well-taken.
You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr22 04:31PM (PDT) From Nick
Uh, well as long as you don't do it on company time, you're fine.
98Apr22 05:00PM (PDT) From Nick
Looking back, the first of those responses was to George. You'll note that I did in fact reduce the number of dashes when viewed in lynx.
The second was an honest suggestion that you look at lynx as an option. If you slogin to zork.net and use lynx here, there's very little lag time involved. It'll only send one screen at a time across the net.
98Apr22 05:23PM (PDT) From [Nick,] Narcoleptic Dog [there was a spooky donut in the backseat of my car]
I think I like the broken yellow dashes better on the sig also. But that's probably just because it's what I'm used to seeing. I think maybe if the sig were also yellow it may be smoother to the eye, but I think you already said you tried that. As for the other stuff, I'm clueless. (But you all already knew that) I mean what is Zen talking about by 'tab, tab, tab, right for save? Is this what must be done on another server?
Dammit Zen! Send me my Game Boy games.
Content-type: text/plain
98Apr22 05:26PM (PDT) From Nick
Another client, actually.
98Apr23 01:13AM (PDT) From Nick
Well, I added an error-logging thingummy to the script. Maybe now I'll be able to figure out WHY it's fucking up.
98Apr23 11:39AM (PDT) From [Hate, hate your enemies / Save, save your friends] Iori Yagami [Find, find your place / Speak, speak the truth]
Hey, Nick, in light of all of these criticisms, I'd like to say that I like your WebCit pretty well. Although I, too, miss the broken yellow dashes. (grin)
Sometimes I wish I had never been born. No, wait. Not me, you.
98Apr23 12:07PM (PDT) From [The wash and fold] Eve [has changed my life.]
I was intrested enough in Emily's remarks to look into it from a legal perspective, and she's right. Intellectual property laws are scarily vague. It's conceivable that every thought she has could be considered company property, dependent on the wordage of her contract. I've been thinking about this, and the implications of this scare me, not just for Emily, but for the business of thinking about thinks. Even though it's kind of cool to think that I know someone whose very thoughts are considered valuable enough to own.
I know this is kind of tangental to the conversation at hand, but I'm worrying about all this, now.
PBS can suck Nick's dick.
98Apr23 01:17PM (PDT) From [Grits ain't groceries] Nick [eggs ain't poultry]
All my thoughts fall under the GPL.
Actually, I'm sure that lots of my stuff should be under some sort of USF license, but I've never seen one.
------
and Mona Lisa was a man.
98Apr23 02:26PM (PDT) From [Queen] Masquerade [of the corporate euphemism]
But, it is frightening. I wonder when people in the software industry will get around to forming labor unions.
Well, I think they're just insuring against the possibility that one of my thoughts might be valuable enough to want to own. If I never think anything valuable to anyone, well...
------
You're just not a "good fit."
98Apr23 04:15PM (PDT) From [The wash and fold] Eve [has changed my life.]
The problem, as I see it, is that the average legislator doesn't have any sort of understanding of intellectual properties, and will end up ill-considerately selling his/her soul to the software industry's lobby, victims of their own ignorance and greed.
------
PBS can suck Nick's dick.
98Apr23 04:23PM (PDT) From [Cross] Otter [the line]
Information cannot be owned, and intellectual property does not exist.
98Apr23 04:46PM (PDT) From [Fuck] Eve [the police.]
That's a good sentiment, but it doesn't work in practice. Right now, the law (or the lack thereof) says information can be owned. This makes thoughts (intellectual property, if you will) ownable, by proxy.
I'm the last person to say we need more laws, but that seems like the only reasonable solution.
------
The New York Dolls are not a punk band.
98Apr23 04:52PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
I'm an international arms courier.
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
$/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)
See?
98Apr23 04:52PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
D'oh!
98Apr23 04:54PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
Hopefully...
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
$/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)
98Apr23 04:56PM (PDT) From [Fuck] Eve [the police.]
Great, now we're all accessories. Thanks a lot.
------
The New York Dolls are not a punk band.
98Apr23 04:59PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
Arrr.
98Apr24 12:07PM (PDT) From [one degree] Iori Yagami [shy of sadistic]
Shiver me timbers.
------
now her nerves are blind, she feels fine
98Apr24 12:14PM (PDT) From [One of these days, when you figure, figure it all out] Eve [well, be sure to let me know.]
Nick, was it you that suggested I tell people my name is matey, with a B?
------
Dig my grave.
98Apr24 02:42PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
Yes. I believe I was on the phone with you when I said that.
98Apr24 02:46PM (PDT) From [One of these days, when you figure, figure it all out] Eve [well, be sure to let me know.]
Well, I tried it at the video store the other day, and he looked at me like I'd just shoved my finger up his ass. not the most pleasant expression. Then he said "why don't you just spell it for me."
So much for you and your big ideas.
------
Dig my grave.
98Apr24 02:59PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
You should have run him through with your cutlass.
98Apr24 03:11PM (PDT) From [One of these days, when you figure, figure it all out] Eve [well, be sure to let me know.]
Or my Toranado.
------
Dig my grave.
98Apr24 03:37PM (PDT) From Narcoleptic Dog [intravenous emotional feedings]
How does one mispronounce/misspell Batey? Do people call you Batty or something? (giggling) Evie?
------
Dammit Zen! Send me my Game Boy games.
98Apr24 03:41PM (PDT) From [One of these days, when you figure, figure it all out] Eve [well, be sure to let me know.]
A) DO NOT CALL ME EVIE.
B) Batty, Beatty, Batley, and endless variations on that theme.
It's not as funny as you might think, when it happens every fucking day of your life.
------
Dig my grave.
98Apr24 03:43PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
As I'm sure I've mentioned before, only two people in the world ever got away with calling me "Nickie". One was jessica Clowers and the other is Aaron's mom.
98Apr24 03:51PM (PDT) From [One of these days, when you figure, figure it all out] Eve [well, be sure to let me know.]
Nickie, or Nicky? Or
Nicki?
------
Dig my grave.
98Apr24 05:12PM (PDT) From Narcoleptic Dog [intravenous emotional feedings]
Ay! Nico!
------
Dammit Zen! Send me my Game Boy games.
98Apr24 06:10PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
"Niko"
98Apr24 07:31PM (PDT) From [One of these days, when you figure, figure it all out] Eve [well, be sure to let me know.]
The Velvet Underground and Nico?
------
Dig my grave.
98Apr25 05:36PM (PDT) From [Mystic] Shazdeh [Fibrosis]
Niko...
...suave!
------
WAIT BEFORE KILLING
98Apr25 08:10PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
OK. This is a little test. I've changed some of the database locking mechanisms, so we should have fewer problems with empty rooms and mysterious circumstances.
98Apr25 08:11PM (PDT) From [are you now] Nick [or have you ever been]
Ah, well, at least I can still enter a message. now to change my parameters
98Apr25 08:13PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
Looks good....
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr25 09:03PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
test test
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr25 09:04PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
Wow. I must've hit the button like twenty times. I may actually have fixed something here.
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr25 09:05PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
Wow. I must've hit the button like twenty times. I may actually have fixed something here.
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr25 09:05PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
Good. it waited until they were one minute apart.
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr27 12:02PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
It's kind of fun watching my access_log show me everyone using the BBS. Like I just saw eve move from a harney computer to a cowell/parina one or something.
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr27 12:05PM (PDT) From [It's a metaphor] Eve [it's famous.]
No, actually, it was the other way around.
I was on one Parina computer, was "moved" to another, and when moved again, went over to Harney - but, if you look at the times, I sort of sauntered.
------
The waiter at Nordstrom tried to keep my Mastercard.
98Apr27 12:06PM (PDT) From [pasty] Nick [vassals]
Yeah, well I'm skipping class so screw you. Wanna get crossroads food?
------
Spock Mountain Research Labs
98Apr27 12:08PM (PDT) From [It's a metaphor] Eve [it's famous.]
Oh my god, the asshole who moved me twice is now in this lab, bitching people out. My tuition money is going to pay for this motherfucker's power trip? Argh!
------
The waiter at Nordstrom tried to keep my Mastercard.
98Apr27 09:45PM (PDT) From [Die!] Narcoleptic Dog [You Nazi Puke-Face Shit-Brained Scumbag!!!]
Why the hell is he kicking people out?! What a Nazi Puke-Faced Shit-Brained Scumbag!
------
Dammit Zen! Send me my Game Boy games.
98Apr27 10:06PM (PDT) From [It's a metaphor] Eve [it's famous.]
We thank you for your support.
------
The waiter at Nordstrom tried to keep my Mastercard.
98Apr28 05:01PM (PDT) From [unindicted] Nick [co-conspirator]
138.202.8.159 - Eve [28/Apr/1998:16:59:58 -0700] "POST /cgi-cit/cit.pl HTTP/1.0" 200 2352 "http://zork.net/cgi-cit/cit.pl#NEW" "Mozilla/4.03 (Macintosh; I; PPC, Nav)"
138.202.192.9 - nick [28/Apr/1998:16:59:59 -0700] "POST /cgi-cit/cit.pl HTTP/1.0" 200 1499 "http://zork.net/cgi-cit/cit.pl#NEW" "Mozilla/3.0 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4m)"
This caused a blank room for both of us. File locks again...
------
ignore alien orders
98Apr28 05:44PM (PDT) From [Real fruit filling] Eve [Artificially flavored]
Hey, Nick - I know you're not there, since I just saw you in the Panahandle, but I thought you'd like to know - the time's still fucked up. In case you hadn't noticed. Which I 'm sure you did.
Anyway, thanks for the lesson in html, Medea style.
------
It's called suck dick.
98Apr28 08:09PM (PDT) From Scorp
Nick> this summer. I've got that daemon skeleton. It couldn't be too hard to link it up to accept requests for rooms and pass back the gdbm data to a client. Client would be fairly simple too (I have a skeleton for one of those too). You've got the ncurses background.
98Apr28 08:23PM (PDT) From [unindicted] Nick [co-conspirator]
Or we could do it in Perl, which was my original plan. I just gave up and did it with a CGI interface because all the networking/display stuff was already done for me.
I would much rather write the daemon in Perl, actually. Much more portable that way.
------
ignore alien orders
98Apr29 04:07PM (PDT) From [Cross] Otter [the line]
Ya know, there's always tcl! About as portable as perl,
and it has networking support, and its easy to write cgis
using it, too... And then you could make a tclet that runs
in a browser or on a host, that can connect to the server
and do its thing.
98Apr29 04:50PM (PDT) From [You never did understand me] Nick [even in courier]
You're welcome to do it for me, Phil.
------
ignore alien orders
98Apr29 05:03PM (PDT) From [Cross] Otter [the line]
Allright!
98Apr29 05:08PM (PDT) From [Even in courier] Nick [you never understood me]
Just be sure to make COPIES of the GDBMs to play with.
------
ignore alien orders
98Apr29 05:18PM (PDT) From [Cross] Otter [the line]
yes, yes.... Copies, schmopies...
Don't worry, I will....
98Apr29 05:19PM (PDT) From [Even in courier] Nick [you never understood me]
Woohoo!
------
ignore alien orders
98May09 01:11PM (PDT) From [When your mouth is full of scalding borscht] Nick [the next thing you do is wrong.]
OK. Eve at one point complained that she doesn't have the magic super computer that tells her when everyone is on.
She does. She has an account on zork.net. So, for alla you mooks what have an account on this machine, this is how you track who's on:
tail -f /httpd/logs/referer_log | grep cit.pl
Amybe someone who speaks awk could tell us the line that just prints out the username column, but until then just know that the username shows up somewhere in that mess. use control-C to stop it. weu.
98May16 12:19AM (PDT) From [Robo] Nick [Technology]
Thu 12/16/1993, 06:48AM From [dance]
megan
[or die.]
95 theses of citadel. 12-14-93
98May16 12:20AM (PDT) From [Robo] Nick [Technology]
Oops.
98May16 12:30AM (PDT) From [Robo] Nick [Technology]
Other than that, I don't think I have anything older than 1997.
98May16 12:40AM (PDT) From [Dan] Eve [I call your bluff]
For the record, I stopped attempting to match my lipstick to my nail polish in 1986.
------
Only 9 more shopping days until my birthday.
98May16 12:41AM (PDT) From [Robo] Nick [Technology]
I guess she hadn't stopped in 1993.
98May16 12:44AM (PDT) From [Eve, read your mail] Lei Wulong [before I snap like a twig]
Wow! I've got to capture that and stick it on Jolly Time. J-G would delete my account super-fast.
------
now I have a machine gun. ho-ho-ho
98May16 12:53AM (PDT) From [Robo] Nick [Technology]
http://www.zork.net/1991/theses.html is where my original transcription of it is.
98May25 02:21PM (PDT) From Bob Perigo
It's not there now, Nick. If it had been I would have posted it to my webBabe to test JG's reaction :)
Happy Birthday Eve!! 9 shopping days since the 16th, right?
MS has been keeping Lou too busy to hack on his WebCit but I'd sure appreciate any criticism you'd leave on Babel and add it to my litany as I grovel for code space.
------
Please browse on over and Babble on Babel
98May25 06:20PM (PDT) From [wispy] Nick [forelock]
Sorry, that should be 1997, not 1991. My mistake.
98May25 06:22PM (PDT) From [wispy] Nick [forelock]
I dunno. I keep this system up strictly for the present user base. I'm actually looking for more snively CGI/Perl dorks to add features to the damn thing. Most proper Perl programmers won't touch the web with a 10' pole, and spend most of their time writing gtk apps in Perl.
This is an example of, er, stalled development.
98Jul10 12:00AM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
This is just a little note for those of you who recently joined in here. This system is based on the old Cit as far as interface goes, and so it is based on some of the old habits I had as a user of those systems.
The reflex I developed in my years using Cits was to always hit a space (or tab) immediately after hitting return. This system will translate whitespace after a carriage return into a sequence of non-breaking spaces (nbsp). If you are using a Un*x-esque port of Netscape (such as for Linux), the tab key should actually insert a tab (^I, I believe) rather than move focus out of the edit box. This is the one part of this little script that I find doesn't work well in Lynx.
Another Lynx-ism is to remove all empty lines. The return-space-return-space-return-space sequence is a cit standard way to scroll down a good deal. WIth Lynx you must use <BR>:s to separate paragraphs (also, you're limited to about seven lines before you're dumped into the save button.
Well, on that note, all HTML is just let through (hence Aaron's ability to change the formatting on messages following his own). I really should put more shut-offs at the ends of messages, but there are many things I should do.
------
Doubt
98Jul10 01:22AM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
FOOLED you! Absorb EGO SHATTERING impulse rays, polyester poltroon!!
------
*** YOU LOST A PLOT OF LAND BECAUSE THE CLAIM WAS NOT FILED PROPERLY ***
98Jul10 09:42AM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
Yeah, well, also... the back key doesn't do much, as your current position in the BBS is stored in a DBM file on zork.
------
Doubt
98Jul11 12:25AM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
My CODE of ETHICS is vacationing at famed SCHROON LAKE in upstate New York!!
------
*** YOU LOST A PLOT OF LAND BECAUSE THE CLAIM WAS NOT FILED PROPERLY ***
98Jul13 02:00PM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
Remember "You Are Here"? Remember its biggest flaw? The fact that it had to print out each time you went anywhere? That's not a problem here. Get rid of the stupid "Go to [Map of BBS]" thing and just put it at the end of each page.
------
*** YOU LOST A PLOT OF LAND BECAUSE THE CLAIM WAS NOT FILED PROPERLY ***
98Jul13 02:08PM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
Hmmm.. From an HTML standpoint, you are on to somthing.
My only concern is that the map actually opens each dbm file individually, reads the message pointers, and closes the thing. File opens and closes are about the costliest operations this BBS will do. Still, it's minor compared to the network transfer times involved.
Hmmm.. Anyone else? I'd like to make this all configurable, but right now that would involve some rewriting.
------
Doubt
98Jul13 02:13PM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
If not that, I would REALLY love either a new message counter on the screens, or a listing of the last five posters, and when they posted.
------
*** YOU LOST A PLOT OF LAND BECAUSE THE CLAIM WAS NOT FILED PROPERLY ***
98Jul13 02:21PM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
Hmmm.. Well, those are all speedups from an HTML point of view, but not from a disk access point of view. I tell you what, I'll try putting a YouAreHere() call after the message entry prints out. If it holds up and no one complains, it'll stay. Otherwise I'll comment it out by tomorrow noon.
------
Doubt
98Jul13 02:26PM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
Ack, this slows it to a crawl! Foo!
------
Doubt
98Jul13 03:14PM (PDT) From [Sulking] Eve [irritates me.]
This font isn't formatted all that well on my browser - I have to inch over to see the right.
98Jul13 04:18PM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
That's bad. Someone must've used a table in here or something. It should automatically format everything to your browser's page width.
------
Doubt
98Jul13 04:59PM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
Hmm... mebbe a few more lines?
------
*** YOU LOST A PLOT OF LAND BECAUSE THE CLAIM WAS NOT FILED PROPERLY ***
98Jul14 03:17PM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
A harmless, yet curious quirk:
Often, when on the last page of messages, and I KNOW there's one more page to go to (the message entry page), Lynx will say there are two more pages. I page down, and it says it's the end of the document.
What's up here?
------
*** YOU LOST A PLOT OF LAND BECAUSE THE CLAIM WAS NOT FILED PROPERLY ***
98Jul15 02:55AM (PDT) From [Fear] Nick [Uncertainty]
Probably the page fulla' BRs.
------
Doubt
98Jul16 10:59PM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
Elaborate.
------
I need some crazy glue, a portrait of Ava Gardner & a day-old jelly donut!!
98Jul17 12:25AM (PDT) From [Rick Moen will be there] Nick [Will you?]
Well, to make the anchors take you to the last unread message, I have to put some empty lines at the end to give it room to scroll down in some browsers.
98Jul20 11:29PM (PDT) From [I guess I din't] Narcoleptic Dog [I guess I din't know]
By the way, I'm having the same problem in this room that Eve mentioned above.
98Jul21 02:17PM (PDT) From [Rick Moen will be there] Nick [Will you?]
Probably a bunch of non-breaking spaces...too many tabs... Something to scroll out, really.
98Sep25 04:47PM (PDT) From DeVilnis
Rise from the ashes, o Phoenix, o lost one. Rise from the ashes and reclaim your place in the world!
98Sep25 06:02PM (PDT) From [You don't make enough money] Nick [to be this moody.]
Reviving dead rooms used to be a hobby of mine. Funny.
------
I was happier when I was with Sly and the Family Stone.
98Sep25 06:24PM (PDT) From DeVilnis
A more time honored and dignified calling I would be hard pressed to reveal...
98Sep25 07:52PM (PDT) From [You don't make enough money] Nick [to be this moody.]
So... know any Perl?
------
I was happier when I was with Sly and the Family Stone.
98Sep28 11:03AM (PDT) From [You can't fight in here, ] Masquerade [this is the war room!]
Cool. IE's made the font here around. . .oh, perhaps 8 point. If that.
98Sep28 11:06AM (PDT) From [You don't make enough money] Nick [to be this moody.]
I'm sure that's configurable. Font sizes are in the preferences on Netscape or any respectable shell window.
------
I was happier when I was with Sly and the Family Stone.
98Sep29 01:51AM (PDT) From [Deleted inode] Shazdeh [has zero dtime]
Note how subtle he was with that "respectable".
------
I need some crazy glue, a portrait of Ava Gardner & a day-old jelly donut!!
98Sep29 02:35PM (PDT) From [You can't fight in here, ] Masquerade [this is the war room!]
'Sides, I'm just too lazy to install a real browser on every lab machine.
It was only in this room.
98Sep29 05:03PM (PDT) From [You don't make enough money] Nick [to be this moody.]
Suit yourself.
------
I was happier when I was with Sly and the Family Stone.
98Oct20 02:22PM (PDT) From [SHOES FOR INDUSTRY!] Nick [SHOES FOR THE DEAD!]
OK, so I changed the following line:
unless($room{$room{'last'}} eq $message) { #...
So that it now reads:
unless($room{$room{'last'}} =~ $FORM{'message'}) { #...
What this basically means is that no one may enter a message that is a subset of the previous message. This means that nobody may now enter a message that contains simply the word "previous", as that would make the message a substring of this one. If anyone has any bright ideas, I'm listening.
What I did before was to simply disallow duplicate messages. Unfortunately, the date is actually part of the message as it is saved in the room database, so this only prevents people from double-clicking to save and ending up with duplicates.
------
Pope, pope with it, baby.
13Feb1999 01:33PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
Oyy. It's been a few months since I last worked on this place. Let's just summarize what I've done:
I fixed the message entry bits so that special characters can appear in messages. I did this with the following line of code:
unless($room{$room{'last'}} =~ quotemeta($FORM{'message'})) {
The key there is "quotemeta", which takes metacharacters (symbols that have special function) into literal printable characters. I put that in a couple of places to make things smoother. Right now I need to add it to the t/s/u stuff in the user preferences, but that's a little hairier.
As I mentioned in the Lobby, I've replaced the database opening routines so that they'll wait until they can successfully open the damn database. Previously they just fscked up and went along their merry way, giving you a page that was generated by a cit that had no data (the infamous "nowhere room"). This should vanish. Any Perl gurus, please let me know if I'm missing something in the following code:
sub gnutie {
my ($hashref, $filename, $options) = @_;
my $writewait;
while($writewait < 600) {
tie(%$hashref, 'GDBM_File', $filename, $options, 0644) && last;
sleep(1);
$writewait++;
}
}
Thus, database files are opened in the following manner:
&gnutie(\%room, "halls/$user{'hall'}/$user{'room'}", &GDBM_READER);
This opens the room database by sending a reference (pointer, in C terms) for the %room hash to the gnutie function. It tells it to open up the particular room file that the user is at, and tells it to open it read-only. Originally, if someone else were writing to the database while this was going on, the open would fail and you'd get an empty room. Now it'll wait one second and try again. If you notice pauses of a few seconds extra, that should just mean that the cit is waiting for a lock on the database file.
There should be no appreciable performance difference in the case where nobody else is writing to the file.
Of course, I plan to let this code settle for a while before I make any more changes. You can view and download the full source code to the cit at http://www.zork.net/cit/download/cit.pl. The license is up at http://www.zork.net/cit/download/LICENSE.
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 01:36PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
Oh yes, that "while(writewait<600){" means that it'll only wait for about ten minutes before giving up on opening the database. I may shrink this down to one or two minutes, but I really didn't care how long it waited so long as there was an upper limit. I'd also like to put in a routine to mail me if it does in fact wait longer than ten minutes.
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 01:38PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
Oh yes, and this place is one year, 11 days, 12 hours, and roughly 35 minutes old!
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 02:12PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
I just made it so that apostrophes (') are stored in the user database (for titles, surnames, etc) as ', which is the HTML way of putting the ASCII code in. It should work a little smoother now. No biggie, really. Just the following code: $user{$_} =~ s/\'/'/g;
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 02:22PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
OK, I've been reading through something George posted eons ago. He mentioned that I coud put the map of the BBS at the end of the screen, after the message entry box. While that may be hideous from an aesthetic point of view, I opposed it on the grounds that it takes too much time to open and close all the database files for the various rooms (and there's that potential one-or-more second lock wait, which is absolutely forever as far as computing goes).
But I thought about it, and I realized that I could store the modification time for each room as you access it in your user database entry. I could then check mtimes instead of message pointers when displaying the map. Since it's an order N operation, removing the overhead of opening and closing all those files would be a great benefit. Any thoughts?
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 02:39PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
I should point out that I'm working on enhancing performance where operations are done several times (such as opening the files). So I'd rather speed up the test for new messages than, say, the date function. You'll notice that I do The Wrong Thing and run `date`, effectively swapping out of Perl and into the shell for a moment. Thing is, I do it once at the beginning of the program, and then keep it in a variable for future use.
I could do it two other ways: I could download the Date::Format module and have it run its fun on localtime(), but that would be a non-standard module and would make this even more of a hassle to install than it already is. I could also add code in by myself that would turn localtime() (the number of seconds since Thursday, Jan 1 1970 at 0:00 GMT) into the printed date. That would be less configurable, since the date command uses nice citlike format strings for the date output.
Another thing I could try is to use the POSIX:: methods and try to run the built-in date formatting functions from there. I don't think I really want to bother with that.
This would be a little easier if I were writing it in C, but everything else would then be much harder. I'd have to go through all sorts of machinations to do regular expressions, and I'd have to hand-code all manner of GAR.
It'd probably be easier to write this as an awk script than as a C program.
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 02:51PM (PST) From [First] Shazdeh [Founder]
The map idea really isn't necessary now that you worked in the map startup page.
------
Collusion is my kung-fu.
13Feb1999 03:03PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
Still, it's nice to speed that up, y'know?
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 03:08PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
OK, so I've made a bunch of changes today and nothing's really broken yet. I consider that a good run. Now I'm going to let my wrists rest up. I did a lot of commenting today.
------
I will not go to second level!
13Feb1999 08:44PM (PST) From [First] Shazdeh [Founder]
Good job, by the way.
------
Collusion is my kung-fu.
13Feb1999 11:50PM (PST) From [If you don't like the news,] Nick [make some of your own.]
Why thank you. Happy Birthday, by the way. I got you something, but parts of it aren't in yet (I'm waiting on a certain administrative organization to finish them up).
------
I will not go to second level!